~SF Magazine August 1996~
This is a reconstructed version based on a discussion between Hideaki Anno and Nozomi Omori(*1) at the SF Seminar '96 held on April 28th.
*1) A Japanese translator, book reviewer, critic, and anthologist who focuses on science fiction.
The World of Neon Genesis Evangelion
Omori
I'd like to start with a topic about why we talk about anime in a science fiction seminar in the first place.
Personally, I have been advocating the "New Real Science Fiction" since last year. At the core of this new Sci-Fi is
"The Devil in Soliton" by Katsufumi Umehara
"Hyperion" and "The Fall of Hyperion" by Dan Simmons
"Neon Genesis Evangelion"
Of those works, Eva is the most representative of Japanese Sci-Fi today, and at the same time, it can be said to be at the forefront of modern Sci-Fi. If you talk about science fiction today, I think it's indispensable. But Anno-san probably doesn't think so.
Anno
Nope.
Omori
You don't. You don't have to agree with me at all (laughs), it's up to the viewer. Sci-Fi geek have their own way of watching Evangelion. So I'd like to analyze here a different view of Evangelion than the way anime geek sees it.
Anno
Thanks. By the way, I'm at a loss, probably here's not the right place for me.
Omori
I heard that you joined the SF convention at Hammacon(*2).
*2) Japan SF Convention held in Yokohama
Anno
So far, that was the last one.
Omori
I was surprised to hear in the waiting room earlier that there's an episode called "Magma Diver," and that title is actually based on David Prynne's "Sundiver" (laughs).
Anno
Yes, it was taken from "Sundiver", but no one noticed. I haven't read it. I just read the cover blurb and thought it was cool. When you dive into the sun, there's something there. That's cool. I haven't read it though.
Omori
That's keen. If you have that sense, you can live well as a Sci-Fi geek (laughs). Now I'd like to survey the audience here.
Who in the audience is unfortunate enough to live in an unfortunate living/economic environment to have never seen a single episode of "Evangelion"? Please raise your hand.
Oh, that's not much, about 20%. Then, please raise your hand if you bought all three LDs?
Anno
Seriously? That's not as bad as I thought.
Omori
There are about the same number of people with a 0% synchronization rate and those with a 100%+ synchronization rate (laughs). That's an ideal distribution.
There may be some people who have never heard of it, so I'd like the director to explain it in a few words. What kind of anime is "Neon Genesis Evangelion"?
Anno
Oh well, I don't know.
Omori
In a nutshell, it's like a robot animation?
Anno
Hmmm, there's a robot in it. I can call it a robot animation, maybe.
Omori
For example, what if one of your relatives asked you "Shu-chan, what kind of animation have you been making lately? or something like that.
Anno
Well, I'd answer I'm making a robot animation (laughs).
Omori
What if they ask "Like in Mazinger Z?"
Anno
If they ask that, I'll tell them that it's like 'Gundam'. Gundam is famous, so if I say so, they'll understand.
Omori
A robot anime like Gundam?
Anno
Hmmm, well, it's quicker. It's easier to understand.
Omori
Gundam, in terms of Sci-Fi history, was an anime that achieved a certain degree of Sci-Fi realism, not the promised space combat of TV anime. From the space colony setting to the Minovsky particle that brought about the need for melee combat. Back in the day, robots didn't need any logic to fight.
Anno
So they've brought something like that to the table, and they've succeeded.
Omori
Yes, properly reasoned, and that's what made Sci-Fi geek love it.
Anno: Also, throwing away the word "robot" was a big deal. No matter how you look at it, it's a robot, but it's a mobile suit. It's so cool, isn't it?
Omori
Earlier, in a conversation with Omiya Nobumitsu(*3), Okada Toshio talked about it, didn't he? No matter how you look at it, it's just an ordinary building, but the AUM truth teach calls it "Satyam" (laughs). They said, "This is similar to Gundam, isn't it?"
*3) He was the chairman of the executive committee of the Japanese SF convention "TOKON8" in 1982.
Anno
Yes, I think the way you use words is important. That's because it's a semiotic theory. I think so, too.
Omori
That's why it's called a humanoid battle weapon. And in the case of Eva, the kanji characters have a big impact.
Anno
It sure does. I'm not good at kanji, but it looks cool. It's good now we have a word processor. My rough drafts are all in hiragana. I don't know kanji very much.
Omori
It is groundbreaking in the sense that they used kanji with attention to typographic matters. For example, the way you put the chyron.
Anno
I was aiming for the coolness of the thing.
Omori
I think that's one of the reasons why it's so popular. Even in modern science fiction, the measure of "coolness" is becoming very important. It's because cyberspace and cybernetic space were so cool that William Gibson was so popular.
Anno
Yes, that's cool.
Omori
But if you think about not only the naming but also the framework of science fiction, the point is the fact that Eva is presenting a big theme, a big story about God and humanity. In the Japanese Sci-Fi of the 80's, there was a thought that the story should be no longer about a god or humanity. That you can't have reality in a big story like that. In the case of Eva, however, the vision of human evolution is clearly at the root of the story.
Anno
I got inspired by Mitsuse Ryu(*4) when I started.
*4)Japanese Science Fiction Writers
Omori
Oh, it was Mitsuse Ryu? Rather than Komatsu Sakyo(*5)?
*5) One of the leading science fiction writers in Japan, as well as one of the leading novelists of post-war Japan.
Anno
Not Komatsu-san but Ryu Mitsuse for that time.
Omori
He's famous for "Ten Billion Days and a Hundred Billion Nights"(*6).
*6) A science fiction novel by Ryu Mitsuse
Anno
Yes he is. I read it again. Japanese Sci-Fi of that era was good, wasn't it? If I say so, it sounds terrible now, though. It's just that I rarely read.
Omori
In that sense, Mitsuse Ryu's sense of naming is also quite-
Anno
Good, right?
Omori
Yes, it is. It also has challenges that seem to anticipate cyberpunk. However, Mitsuse's world is more oriental in its view of impermanence, but Evangelion is more Western.
Anno
I'm not into Western civilization, you know. Somehow I don't trust Western civilization very much.
Omori
Is that as something to be denied?
Anno: It doesn't relate to me, so I can use it. If I were a Christian, I'd be too scared to use Christian stuffs.
Omori
Indeed. You don't have any attachments, so you can use the name of an angel. Like let's use this name because its sense of language sounds nice.
Anno
To equate apostles and angels is so much to complain about from a westerner's point of view. There is an American worker in our company, and he scolded me for many things, saying it was wrong. That's normal. But I didn't care about that and just did it.
Omori
On the other hand, I thought of it as a story to climb the human evolutionary ladder, from Clarke's "The End of Childhood" to Sakyo Komatsu, and more recently, Gregg Bear's "Blood Music".
Anno
I don't know. I don't think what I was trying to do was that big of a deal.
Omori
It does look like it's a big deal (laughs).
Anno
Oh yeah?
Omori
Because you say "Instrumentality of Mankind" (laughs) .
Anno
Only the wording is exaggerated. It's just cool when it's written in kanji:
人類補完計画.
<Original JP site: http://anime-room.jp/modules/evangelion/eva-doc/siryou4-1.htm#top>
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