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'EVANGELION: 1.0 YOU ARE (NOT) ALONE.' I ...

'EVANGELION: 1.0 YOU ARE (NOT) ALONE.' Interview with Hideaki Anno #7

Feb 04, 2022

Quality is determined at the last gate.

Interviewer

You were concerned that the quality would decline by changing from celluloid to digital video, so you had low expectations at first.

Anno

Right. If we switched to digital video, the good qualities of the previous video would disappear. I was prepared for that at first. However, not only did it not disappear, but the atmosphere and light were overwhelmingly better, which was a surprise. When I first saw the composite screen from the test shots, the cut of Misato in the hospital lobby, on the master monitor, I was surprised and impressed. The feeling of color, air, light, etc. were all so fresh that I was really glad I went with full digital instead of re-editing. I finally realized the wonderful benefits of digital technology. It's partly because today's digital technology is getting better, but it's also because Anno's sense and skills are outstanding. Also, Tsurumaki's experience with digital video is amazing. This was the first time for me to work entirely digitally, including 3D, so I was surprised and pleased with everything I saw in the beginning.

Interviewer

It's been a while since animation shifted to digital video, and we were just getting used to it. So I think the timing was good.

Anno

That may be true. It's progress that would have been unimaginable nine years ago, when we started moving from celluloid to digital video. When Tsurumaki was making "Gunbuster 2", I heard him complaining about how he couldn't do this or that with digital video. Even when I was working on "Re: Cutie Honey", I couldn't do much with it. At that time, I didn't have any particular intention to do anything with digital animation, and I only had an idea of how to reproduce celluloid animation with digital animation.

Even so, Tsurumaki went through a long process of trial and error with "Gunbuster 2", and in the final episode, he was able to achieve that level of quality with digital animation. That's why I thought we could do something about this.

Interviewer.

So the technology is largely dependent on shooting, rather than 3D CGI?

Anno

Yes, it depends heavily on shooting. Anyway, digital moving images have completely changed due to shooting techniques. In the future, I think the quality will depend on how much time can be spent on shooting. Once you realize what you can do with digital photography and coloring, you start to get greedy. That's why I want to do many takes.

Interviewer

To be more specific, do you mean a sense of atmosphere, or the expression of light and shadow, such as "para" and "flare" (*1)?

*1) In the animation industry, the gradation of shadows that darkens the screen is called "para," and the gradation of light that brightens the screen is called "flare".

Anno

Yes, that's part of it. When I was making TV animation, I did a lot of things to raise the quality during the shooting phase. There are times when we open the cut bag(*2) and the quality of the picture is so low that we want to cover our eyes. We're trying to make it better by the time we get to the shooting phase.

*2) A bag used to carry the original and moving images.

Interviewer

For example, what kind of processing did you add?

Anno

Fill in all the areas that will become color pucks (3) with black. Or add details. I'd add shadows with markers and weathering(4) like stains.

One of the things that disturbed me when I watched the early Mobile Suit Gundam was that sometimes the holes in the sides of the Gundam's head were white. It was a mistake that could have been covered if someone had painted the holes with black magic. I've always had that feeling.

*3) When there is a color painting mistake, the color of the area looks like it's flashing when you watch the video.

*4) A technique to give reality to an imaginary robot.

Interviewer

It's true that mistakes happen. But you are saying that the problem is that there are people who accept this as no problem.

Anno

Yes, that's right. It's a shame that this is an obvious mistake, but it's ignored even before the film is shot. We all know that there's not much time in animation production. But I would have liked to see a little more effort put into it. Just a few minutes before shooting would have changed the impression of the screen dramatically. It's a shame that they don't do that.

In the Macross TV animation series, I saw that Shoji Kawamori (*5) used markers to draw the highlights of the Valkyrie (the main robot) and the red light spot directly on the cels. When I saw that, I was convinced that it was the way it should be. There are many things that the director can do before the shooting. I was convinced that working directly on the cels is really effective.

*5)Mechanical design and setting supervision for Macross. He was also in charge of directing several episodes, and wrote the script for the final episode.

Interviewer

I heard from a friend of mine that Hayao Miyazaki has the same idea. I heard that when he was working on Detective Holmes, in the phase before shooting, he would say, "Hey, bring me a magic marker," and happily paint the cels with it.

Anno

That's right. In his case, I heard that sometimes he even redrew the background. It seems that he really enjoyed the phase before the shooting.

In the days when we were making animation with cels, the director would open the cutting bag and do a final check of the cels, backgrounds, and time sheets. They would then brush up as much as possible. It was their last chance to get it right before shooting.

Interviewer

The phase before shooting is rarely talked about or mattered in magazines and other media. I've been wondering about that for a while. I'm aware that it's very important. In cooking, it's like adding a little extra flavor at the end, isn't it?

Anno

That's the last bastion of maintaining the quality of the screen. Up until the phase before shooting, there's not much difference between "Eva" and other anime. When the person in charge of the production process tells us that we will be shooting in ten minutes, we do the maximum amount of brushing up that we can do in those ten minutes, and that's what we did with the TV anime "Eva". Even though we had a tight schedule, we managed to maintain the quality of the screen.

Interviewer

When you went digital, there were no cells in the cutting bag, so you couldn't do that anymore, right?

Anno

It's true that I couldn't do it by myself anymore. But now I think I can distribute the work that I can do in the phase before shooting to all the processes.

Interviewer

Ah, so that's what the "para" and "flare" processing really is.

Anno

That's what I did when I was editing the video for Karekano. Also, with digital technology, I was able to make detailed color corrections, add shading, and even fix the lines in the video on the spot using a tablet during the finishing check. Even if I couldn't do it there, I was able to ask him to send it back to me so that I could make corrections and add details directly to the video before sending it back to the person in charge of finishing. This time, Mr. Kikuchi and Wish were very flexible in handling these issues, and I was grateful for that.

Interviewer

So you don't go as far as "assembling the data before shooting and giving instructions"?

Anno

No, I don't. I'm not that computer guy, and I can't use Photoshop very well. I tried to learn, but in the end I never did. I'd rather not learn more about computers than I have to. If I start on my own, I'll end up putting all the work together by myself, and I think I'll end up taking it on myself. Instead, I thought it would be much faster to ask someone else to do the work, and it would be better for the work to have the sensibility and skills of that person. Of course, as a last resort, I think it would be better if I could do it myself, but I think it would be better if I could keep my hands out of it as much as possible, and look at the big picture as much as possible. What I'm doing is fixing the mechanics. I think it would be a bad idea to do more than that.

Just like the TV anime "Eva", this time there are two directors, Masayuki and Tsurumaki. So I'm glad that we were able to spread out the directing duties and give them a little more extra space in the mental aspect.

Masayuki and Tsurumaki are also doing the same work as I am, looking at the big picture and making decisions. So I think it worked out well that I was able to spread out the work reasonably well, and not become the worst case where I alone had to deal with everything. Even so, by the end of the project, there was no room for everyone to relax (laughs).

If I work alone, nothing interesting will come out of it. So I think it would be better if the production work is divided up and the responsibility is concentrated on me alone.

Interviewer

That's interesting. I understand that the secret to the quality of the images was the processing that was done in the phase before shooting. So one of the big advantages of going digital is that you can fix things right away. In the case of film, you could only see the film two days after it was shot.

Anno

Yes, now it can be fixed immediately. So it's less stressful. Also, with digital, the more you do as long as you have time, the better it gets for sure. There are more things you can do, so I think it's better for maintaining quality from a time and cost perspective. When I was working with celluloid, it was very difficult to fix a picture that had already been painted. So, I had to cover it up somehow. But with digital, it's easy to go back and correct. And you can check it on the spot, which is really great and helpful.

For the details of the drawing, I had the 2D pasted in this time. I think that's why we were able to get such fine and realistic details that would have been difficult to achieve with hand-drawn images. With digital technology, the more you work in any department, the higher the quality becomes. That was one of the great things. It's not just maintaining the celluloid era, but upgrading, which is astonishing.

Once you've tasted the benefits of digital technology, there's no going back to the celluloid era. I'm already nostalgic for the celluloid era that was just a while ago. Time flies, doesn't it?


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