As a result, we inevitably return to the structure that was there at the beginning.
Interviewer
In the end, there are three scenes in which Mari appears: the cold open, her falling onto the rooftop where Shinji is, and the decisive battle of Unit-02.
Tsurumaki
In Enokido's proposal, there are more scenes in which she appears. She reappears rather quickly after the cold open and meets Shinji.
Then she became a regular pilot of Unit-02 and became an idol at school, like Asuka in the TV series. This is how it was supposed to be at first.
But when Anno scripted it, she was hospitalized long after she fought the Eighth Angel.
As a result, we inevitably return to the structure that was there at the beginning: "She doesn't appear until near the climax after she appears in the cold open."
Even though we put the scenes in which she appears in the beginning of the film, she has no chance to talk to Misato or Shinji if she is in the hospital.
Because if we try to relate to them, it will be hard work.
I'm getting the impression that the character doesn't make much difference if she's there or not, and it's bothering me so much.
Interviewer
Like a Zashiki-warashi(*1).
*1) Zashiki-warashi are spirit-like beings. They are said to be yokai that live in parlors or storage rooms, and that perform pranks, and that people who see one would be visited with good fortune. (Wikipedia)
Tsurumaki
That's exactly how I feel (laughs).
When I pointed this out, Anno said, "Well, we don't need this scene," or "Let's not do this scene either," and the scenes in which Mari appeared were cut more and more.
I drew the storyboard for the scene of the Eighth Angel, assuming that Mari and Asuka were on board together.
However, when I tried to summarize the scene, I could not see the meaning.
Rather, I felt anxious after all that Asuka was suddenly on board first.
Then we go, "Well, let's dismiss this one".
Interviewer
If Mari and Asuka were on board together, do we lose the emotional impact of the scene in the completed film where Asuka cries "I couldn't do anything" or does it not connect to the later drama between Asuka and Unit-03?
Tsurumaki
No, that was, of course, not bad from the perspective of the flow of the story.
The result of "Asuka and Mari had to work together to defeat the angel" leads to Asuka's thought "I need a friend," which is in line with the theme.
But it is not as if this leads to the development of "Mari and Asuka become best friends".
After that, Mari and Asuka would not have even had a conversation.
It was difficult to get Mari to join the story.
I felt that this was quite a difficult thing to do.
It would have been different if we had done something really completely different without basing it on the TV series.
Interviewer
Do you mean like cutting all the blocks around episodes 11 to 19?
Tsurumaki
Yes, that's right.
Sahaquiel is in episode 12, so we could have gone with an extreme idea, like cutting all the episodes after that.
Even if we didn't go that far, we all thought we could control the situation somehow.
In that sense, Enokido's proposal was an excellent idea that successfully reversed the sense of being stuck, while at the same time making use of the original structure.
However, I thought the idea was too extreme, so instead of using it outright, I tried to soften the landing a little more.
Then, this time, it looks like we went with a very ordinary solution.
It's like all kinds of new things are happening, but it's as if nothing is happening.
When we try to do it, we can't change it.
We become unsure if we can't change it in the first place or if we don't want to change it.
I think such forces were working.
Interviewer
That is a very interesting story.
It means that a story is not something that can be created only by calculation.