～Monthly Newtype May1998～
Happiness in 2 dimensions, ??? in 3 dimensions
Noda: (After hearing that Anno doesn't eat meat or fish) You don't like the smell? I might know what it is. Like in anime... Anime doesn't have any smell. So, you're going to have less and less sex, aren't you?
Anno: That's right. That went on for a long time, and the reaction was intense. The food I eat has not changed, but the things I make have changed. I'm shooting a porno now.... I'm finally getting closer to something more like a real thing.
Noda: Pornography isn't strictly real, is it? It's closer to something that looks real.
Anno: That's right, though.
Noda: It's an illusion. Animation, even if you draw a picture from a great angle, costs absolutely nothing. You can even go from earth to space.
Anno: It's not realistic.
Noda: The manga that I think is theatrical is "Komawari-kun" (*3). The character's expression changes the moment you turn the page. It's similar to what actors do. You put on a mask and change your expression.
Anno: That manga is all about physical action.
Noda: It's all about the interesting poses of the people. It's almost like the fun of having a character change from one scene to the next, instead of having a beautiful actor. You know, I think flatness (two-dimensional) is a blessing for human beings. We live in three dimensions, don't we? One day, I was lying in a warm bed. It's two-dimensional, isn't it? When I realized that I had to stand up from there, I thought that's when human suffering begins.
Anno: Oh.
Noda: Trying to survive is three dimensional. I think that dreaming and dead bodies are both two-dimensional. I think death and sleep are very close after all. It's like when a person tries to raise his head, that's when the miseries begin? The fact that Anno woke up to the third dimension, to the physical body, can already be called misery (laughs).
Anno: Well, that's very unhappy (laughs).
Noda: Is that the same misery that Tsutomu Miyazaki (*5) already felt? That he has awakened to the third dimension, to the physical body...
Anno: But his misery was that he tried to bring two dimensions into the third dimension. That was a mistake.
Noda: 'Mistake' (laughs)? It's like you're wishing he hadn't failed.
Anno: He shouldn't have had that idea. If he had, he could have stayed a normal geek. In my opinion, it doesn't matter if you carry the misery of waking up in the third dimension, as long as you can move on.
Noda: You should be proactive in situations where you can move forward. When there's a social phenomenon going on, it's better to be proactive and step forward.
Anno: That's why I shoot pornography. I'd also like to direct a stage play if I could.
*3 Komawari-kun : The main character in the gag manga "Gaki-Deka" written by Tatsuhiko Yamagami. The "death penalty" pose (instant gag) that this character does became popular in the 1970s. It is still common to see characters' faces changing instantly or making us laugh with their funny movements as one of the methods of comedy.
*5 Tsutomu Miyazaki : Tsutomu Miyazaki was a Japanese serial killer, cannibal, child rapist and necrophile who murdered four young girls in Tokyo and Saitama Prefecture between August 1988 and June 1989. He was termed by the Japanese media as the "Otaku Murderer". (Wikipedia)
Even in animation, I want the actors to act properly.
Anno: (On visiting the rehearsal space of Noda's play) The atmosphere of a stage rehearsal is great, isn't it?
Noda: It's like a school festival, isn't it?
Anno: After the play is over, they won't see each other anymore. But that moment of unity is wonderful. In animation, the production team is not united, because the work is completely divided.
Noda: Unlike TV and movies, we work together every day on stage, so there's no choice but to love or hate.
Anno: That leads naturally to a situation of mixed feelings of love and hate. Animation production is a flowing process. It's like making a car, you make it according to a blueprint. The direction and storyboarding are done by different people.
Noda: Is that so? But it's the director's job to create a sense of unity, isn't it?
Anno: If we have enough time, we don't have to divide it up. There are dozens of people drawing the characters, so the play changes depending on the picture.
Noda: I guess it's the same with TV dramas where each episode has a different scriptwriter. It's terrible, isn't it?
Anno But what if the actors show their dislike for it?
Noda: Actors on TV don't do that. If the director asks them to raise their hands, they will. I would never raise my hand.
Anno: For my next film, I would like to be the sound director (*4) as well, if possible. I realized that if I didn't do that, I would end up with playing a Chinese whispers.
Noda What do you mean?
Anno: Even if I asked the sound director to pass on a message to the actors, they would only get a third of what I said. So I tried to tell them directly. However, on the set, actors have a unique barrier where they listen to what the sound director says but not to what others say. In this sense, I think the stage plays are good because they are thoroughly rehearsed. I think it's good to have actors who question the direction.
Noda: No one says anything?
Anno: No, they don't say it on the site, but they say it later at a bar. I think they should say it at the beginning.
Noda: Oh, that happens to stage actors too (laughs).
*4 sound director : In anime production, there is usually a sound director who is responsible for the recording process, apart from the director of the main story. It is the role of the sound director to give instructions to the voice actors.
Stage and visuals. And what comes after that?
Noda: Would you really like to direct a stage play?
Anno Yes. The stage is nice, isn't it?
Noda: Actually, it's not.
Anno: The grass is always greener on the other side?
Noda: Or rather, it's a job that doesn't pay well (laughs). The reason why the stage is not good is because it is not replicable. If you want to perform it again, you have to start all over again.
Anno: That's right. If something can't be mass-produced, it can't be a major work. But I think that's the beauty of it.
Noda Those of us who work in theatrical performances are very close to restaurants, aren't we?
Anno Oh, yes.
Noda: You need to have customers come to the restaurant to know what it tastes like. Only those who come know what it tastes like, and the number of people who come is limited. If the chef dies, you will never be able to eat his food again, and if the creator dies, you will never be able to see his play again. Movies are good, aren't they? You can watch them later and appreciate them.
Anno: Yes, the beauty of film is that it can be mass-produced and fixed. But with the stage, there are things that you can't see unless you go there. In "Red Devil," it was great to see the actress's underwear for a moment (laughs). Accidents like that, and the flow of improvising to follow up on them, is also different every time and that' s good, isn't it?
Noda: Yes. I was aiming for the momentary impression (laughs).
Anno: I've always wondered if it's possible to fuse the stage and the screen.
Noda: Sure, that's right. People who make animation can definitely shoot good images, can't they? Because they can draw good pictures.
Anno: Yes. I feel like the stage is an extension of the visual image.
Noda: Right. It's difficult to go from stage to visual images, though.
Anno: It's the same for me. The stage is far away from me. That's why I'm trying to reach out to it.
Noda: Beyond film, there may be the stage. If you get interested in acting and start filming actors more and more, there may be a stage beyond that.
Anno: People sometimes say that "Evangelion" is theatrical, but I didn't know anything about theater at the time. I think the goal is the same. I regret now that I should have seen a play earlier.
Noda: But not everything is enjoyable (laughs).
Anno: It's the same with anime (laughs).
Noda: Don't you want to be an actor?
Anno: I'm not confident in my face or voice. If you find a role that fits, please offer it to me (laughs).
(February 20, 1998, Shibuya, Tokyo)
・・・
The connection between "Evangelion" and theater
In episodes 25 and 26 of the TV version of "Evangelion," the scenes were depicted as if they were conversations on a stage. In the 1980s, when the "Third Stage" led by Naofumi Konoue was active, the development of a character who asks himself questions in order to confirm himself, and after being thoroughly pursued, finds a point of reference was often seen in small theatrical productions. As a result of sticking to the rhythm of the dialogue, a stage style catharsis may have been born.
Regarding dialogue, Anno said, "Even if the illustrations are bad, if the script is good, it can be saved, so it has a high cost performance. I pay more attention to the dialogue than the illustrations in order to capture a wide audience."
The stage also appears in the film version as a mindscape. The puppet, the stage, the mirror, and the twins are universal motifs that represent another self and the world, and are symbolic representations. In terms of creating a sense of real theater performance, I would like you to pay attention to the 40-second silence scene in the elevator, where the tense tension between two people is expressed through the picture. This is similar to the 90's type of theater, "quiet theater," which explores the relationship between people. It is a coincidence that the internal expression of the characters in "Eva" synchronized with the theater that continues to examine the reality of human existence.
The depth of Anno's ability to look beyond symbolic expressions to the more nuanced aspects of human nature! And the judgment to choose the most effective way to approach the audience under the limited conditions. This is something that not even theatrical artists can possess.
<Original JP site: http://anime-room.jp/modules/evangelion/eva-doc/siryou13.html#top>